Kenneth Copeland is one of the marquee names in the Prosperity Gospel and Word of Faith movement. At the age of 90, he built Kenneth Copeland Ministries into a behemoth and amassed a net worth estimated to exceed $300 million, and reportedly lives a lavish lifestyle off the back of tithes, which includes mansions counted as parsonages. This would make him likely the richest pastor in the world. He is notorious for his multiple private jets, which he attributes to his love of flying aircraft. Generally, he is regarded as low-hanging fruit within discernment spheres, to the extent that even Mike Winger regarded him as a false teacher before he began doing content on false prophets.
The Prosperity Gospel and the world of televangelism are a media market that prospered amongst the boomer generation. Millennials and Gen Z are not as inundated with these old heads on the old platforms as they are with the current forms of digital media, and are more inundated with the Poverty Gospel countermovement.
That said, they may be influenced by those downstream from the original faces of the Prosperity Gospel. This makes for a generational clash when Copeland, who rarely does interviews, sat down with YouTuber Bryce Crawford. Crawford is the latest iteration of YouTube apologetics using conversational style podcasts as a means to promote the Gospel. His show is very much a Christian Joe Rogan and has amassed over 800K subscribers.
Crawford set out to confront Copeland on his prosperity teachings on his own turf for a two-hour interview. Admittedly, the first forty minutes are background on Copeland, featuring long-winded stories of how he met his wife, learned to fly planes, and the origins of his namesake ministry and its growth. His speaking style is akin to that of a southern grandfather, which makes his success in radio unsurprising. He speaks slowly and with confidence, giving the impression that it is no anomaly how he rose to prominence. He very much lulls Crawford at times and is filibustering his questions with his anecdotes to the extent that Crawford was silent for large portions of the conversation. This would be a weakness on the part of the interviewer.
There were several moments throughout the early portions of the debate where Copeland spoke errantly, both to his interpretation of Scripture and in his personal record. Forty-two minutes in, he claimed that there was no law against murder when Cain killed Abel, which is an overreliance on the power of words, where Scripture states that the Law is written on the hearts of mankind via Romans. Abel is also warned against sin, in Genesis 4.
At around fifty-six minutes, he claims that Paul’s “thorn in his side” was the churches that he planted, claiming that he had been healed of his physical afflictions. Generally, the historical debate over this passage is divided into whether the thorn was physiological or spiritual, but unlikely sharing Copeland’s view that it was a passion for the local churches. Copeland’s has long taught that poverty and sickness can be overcome with obedience and giving, which he teaches in this interview. He does spend some time disputing the lavishness of his private jets, claiming that if he uses them for personal travel, he pays taxes on it in compliance with the IRS code. He is also adamant that he does not set his personal salary. Copeland argues that prosperity is more than merely monetary, which softens Crawford’s objections but does not preclude his errant teaching.
Because Crawford rarely is able to interject, it is closer to ninety minutes before there is finally a meaningful back and forth between them. Crawford says that he has a hard time wrapping his mind around the question, “What if God doesn’t always give people what they want,” to which Copeland firmly responds, “Now, when did he say he wouldn’t do that?” Copeland proceeds to use the possessed man in Mark 5 to suggest that because Christ clothed him, this was prospering the man. He also infers that Christ was wealthy because he had Judas for a treasurer.
CRAWFORD
So for the person that let’s say someone hears this this prosperity message, right? They’re listening. They’re trying to apply. They’re trying to read the scriptures. They’re doing the things. Nothing’s changing. Maybe they have a sickness. The sickness isn’t going. You know, their finances aren’t changing. Is that like a problem on the person
COPELAND
Don’t quit. Absolute necessity to tithe.
Already in the conversation, Copeland has asserted the necessity of tithing towards prosperity and healing. He has likened it to “seed planting,” something he has taught for decades. This exchange builds up to him claiming that if God does not give you your desires, then the blame is on the believer. He employs a mock conversation he might have with a follower of his against these questions.
The right kind of hope is necessary because faith is the substance of things hoped for. “So, what’s my hope, brother Copeland?”
 “You going to he get healed?”
“Absolutely.”
“How do you know?
“My hope is strong. Therefore, I have faith. I fully expect it.”
“What if it doesn’t happen?”
“I missed it, not God. I missed it here, right here. Or there’s some little something. I’ve got something against somebody that forgive those that have any ought against you.”
He uses this hypothetical exchange to suggest that one’s personal sin is the reason that they are not “prospering.” This is a very dangerous teaching as it leads to a weakened resolve in the believer and convicts of sin where none might exist, all coming from someone whose wealth has been enriched through tithing and loopholes in the tax law.
He reiterates this logic later in the conversation, where he says, “I have authority over my household, but I don’t have authority over yours.” Statements like this are designed to give him plausible deniability when the results vary. He gives minutes worth of anecdotes of how he has helped people pay off cars and relieve their debt.
There are weaknesses in Crawford’s approach stemming from his own lack of foundation. He objects to the Prosperity Gospel, believing it detracts from Jesus being “the prize,” but he does not push back on the longwinded monologues of Crawford, and towards the end, he appears to agree with him regarding suffering:
COPELAND
Don’t ever let it be said ever that God has ever put any kind of a sickness or a disease on somebody to teach them something. Book of James. Don’t you dare do that. Now, if something happens and he teaches you from it, that’s different. But he didn’t do it.
CRAWFORD
Yeah, God doesn’t cause suffering. I think God allows things.
Copeland proceeds to use this to suggest that the Spirit gives people hunches and that delays are God working in one’s life. To say that God does not cause suffering is to ignore the fact that the Father is a righteous judge and the biblical pattern of judgment throughout Scripture involves God chastening his people and cursing unbelievers.
While sin is self-punishing, it cannot be ignored that the LORD did send the plagues on Egypt and sent famine on the earth in Genesis and in 1st Kings. God very much allowed the suffering of Job and is not the author of his suffering apart from his permission for the events to unfold. Even in the book of Acts, God strikes down Ananias and his wife for their defrauding of the Church. While they were guilty of their sin, God very much struck them down supernaturally, causing their much-deserved suffering.
Conclusion
Crawford went to Copeland to interview and confront him over his prosperity teaching, something he had advertised the interview to be, yet through exerting control over the conversation, Copeland was able to field his questions with ease. While Crawford was able to offer some pushback, he was hardly a presence in the interview at times and did not assert himself with a more thorough rebuttal of Copeland’s teachings. His viewership appears to have a mixed response, and unfortunately, many appear to buy in to Copeland’s message. While Crawford is unlikely to be persuaded by this interview to adopt Copeland’s prosperity message, he did give Copeland a vast audience to peddle it to with insufficient pushback.
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