YouTube apologetics is filled with many players, both large and small, across all theological and denominational stripes. That said, the popular conception is that an apologist is someone who defends the faith, and they do so from a place of certainty. Where there are numerous cases of high-profile conversions, this trend often occurs in the realm of online apologetics.
Recently, Ben of Cleave to Antiquity announced his shift from Protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy. Cleave to Antiquity only began his YouTube channel in 2024 and has an emphasis on apologetics against Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. His oldest publicly listed video is on whether Martin Luther “removed books” and pertaining to Mariology. Cleave to Antiquity was an associate pastor at a nondenominational church, though the church he pastored at is not as publicly known. The channel has 11K subs, and Ben has appeared as a guest with numerous other figures, including Keith Foskey, Gavin Ortlund, The Other Paul, and RuslanKD, often speaking against Eastern Orthodoxy.
The news of his conversion broke out prior to the release of his video on the subject, indicating that the rumors behind the scene were accurate. In his twelve minute video on the subject, he explains the various hurdles that compelled him to switch to Eastern Orthodoxy.
He first speaks to a conversation with an Anglican priest on the subject of prayer to the saints. Whereas the Protestant traditions reject the notion of prayer to the saints who then pray to God on behalf of the church, the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox affirm prayer to the saints and angels. The Anglican priests suggested to him that you ask God to have the saints pray on his behalf. This was something he proceeded to grapple with as he had no response. In the Reformed Tradition, Francis Turretin likens prayer to the saints to necromancy, whereby the only example of such found in Scripture is King Saul before the medium. The practice of entreating the dead is strictly forbidden in Scripture.
The second objection is that of apostolic authority, which he claims that the Anglicans have the best “answer” to the other Apostolic sects. Of the Lutherans, he claims that they affirm the succession of doctrine, but that this was insufficient. What is strange is that Cleave to Antiquity had done content on this subject and has found his opponents’ arguments convincing. Both the Romanists and the Eastern Orthodox claim direct succession from Peter, so even amongst those who affirm this doctrine, there are disputes between both sects, historically excommunicating those on the other side. The Eastern Orthodox Church would submit to the authority of Rome during the Council of Florence prior to the fall of Constantinople.
The third argument he presents is that of an experience where he offered a prayer he made to God asking for the intercession of the Theotokos (Mary) to make it known if he were acting outside of God’s will, wherein he “smelled incense” and felt a warmth in his chest. This softened his heart and led to a conversion.
Jordan Cooper Response
Many YouTubers took to talking about the conversion of Cleave to Antiquity to Eastern Orthodoxy, but a notable one was that of Jordan B. Cooper, who is a Lutheran scholar. Previously, we discussed his opposition to Christian Nationalism rooted in his nostalgia for the Constitution.
Cooper claimed early on that Cleave to Antiquity was someone who built his platform by milking controversy, rather than provide edifying content, because the former is the only way to grow on social media. Cooper did this while milking controversy for clicks with his face on the thumbnail. The hypocrisy of larger channels bashing younger channels for “milking controversy” for growth somewhat undermines his argument, even though fighting Eastern Orthodoxy was core to Cleave to Antiquity’s content.
Cooper does present the claim that he is shifting for growth, which is a reasonable objection within the YouTube landscape. Given that the channel in question only has 11K subscribers, Cleave to Antiquity, in leaving his church, would be suffering a pay cut even if his channel were to grow. However, milking a conversion to either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy is a strategy for channel growth. Cameron Bertuzzi of Capturing Christianity is a prime example of a high-profile apologist who switched over to Rome and saw growth afterwards, so the strategy can work. Additionally, on X, multiple accounts have grown through public conversions.
Analysis
In digging deep into the Christianity of antiquity, Cleave to Antiquity became enthralled in the Eastern Orthodoxy he set out to oppose, yet he likely used his research as a means of soul searching. Perhaps the unspoken problem is that of the lack of historical roots within nondenominational Christianity, which (apart from exceptions) is neither enchanting nor transcendent in its worship. In other words, the lack of a deeply rooted liturgy coincided with his departure, while the Eastern Orthodox offered something mystical.
Much of the revival happening in the American is driven by men returning to tradition, reading the historic literature, and seeking something that is juxtaposed to liberalized, consumeristic worship that is all too common in contemporary Christianity. The worship should point to a God that is transcendent, not one that was devised by Madison Avenue. In this case, Cleave to Antiquity relied heavily on an experience in prayer to drive his decision, not so much a textbook.
There is a series of high-profile conversions and denominational switches, and while there is variance in where people are converting to, there is a swath of people searching for something that stands against modernity, and the Protestant sects need to understand this. After all, the Reformation was an appeal to Tradition, not a revolt against it.
3 Responses
“though the church he pastored at is not as publicly known”
To some of us his church was publicly known. He would wear a dhirt syaing “Rivival Church” in his streams and he daid in one that its in Florida. Of the two that come up in a search, its this one http://www.revivalccfl.com which until yesterday listed him as associate pastor under the “our leadership” page and had his photo and his real name. I bet via the internet archive you can see an old version of that page and see it.
They also have a youtube channel with a playlist of his sunday school lessons. Needgodnet even found a video of him giving a sermon in a church service where he preached faith alone.
Also some us knew this was coming. A few months back he did a stream struggle sessioning Indian Brunner demanding he say its a sin to break a Mary statue. It caused enough reaction that Ben took the video down the same day.
Another youtuber, The Christian King, made a response video to the struggle session of Indiana and Ben of Cleave to Antiquity copyright struck the response video. But The Christian King uploaded it to his Rumble channel and startes occasionally releasing remixes of an AI generated song he wrote, “Cleave to Deceit” where he was baiting Cleave to Debate him on calling Mary “Theotokos.” Now that Cleave has become EO, The Christian King has released a new AI song which I think is called “Cleave to the East” but I’m not gonna check right now.
Anthony Rogers on HHS channel (his humble aervant 3239) last night said after the one collab he did with Cleave decided to not associate with him anymore before cleave seemed more interested in church fathers than acripture and seemed off to him.
Barely Protestant, the Anglican priest youtuber who convinced Cleave to go EO, has made a video desiring to take credit, angry that Cleave won’t mention his name and give him credit. And he also says the Eastern Orthodoxy that Cleave is joining is considered a schismatic sect by the mainstream Eastern Orthodox. Also he says he knew since July thay Cleave was going EO.
Yet guys like Anglican Aesthetics and Canon and Creed had Cleave pn their channels just a few days ago defending Sola Scriptura or the 66 Book Canon, and had no idea he was going to go E[, or so they claim. Javier Perdomo has yet to make a video on his buddy’s dexeption. Redeemed Zoomer, as usually, thinks Christianity is a big joke and its no big deal.
But Cleave’s popularity is all yhe creation of Redeemed Zoomer who touted him conatantly, and who Cleave has often said xonvinced him to wvwn make the channel. this means zoomer is probably a closet EO too. After all most of his content is “Should I go Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox?” When Zoomer finally says he is going one or the other, it shouldn’t be a shock since Cleave was Zoomer’s creation the same way JD Vance is Peter Thiel’s creation.
Also, last night, in the stream with HHS, Anthony Rogers called Ben “Cleave to Iniquity” and said what he smelled “was probably the fires of hell singing his nose hairs.”
Oh, and EO meme youtuber Christian Mario also knew since July that Cleave was going EO. So I judge that Redeemed Zoomer, Christian Mario, Barely Protestant, and others in their goofy high church circle, possibly even The Other Paul, have foisted a PsyOp upon us. I think Cleave was always EO, particularly “True Orthodox” a schismatic sect, that one of these guys probably got him his job at that mega church so he could pretend to be a pastor and make the psyop really “convincing.” To me its obvious on its face. Cleave made True Orthodox arguments againsg Mainstream EO all along, i.e. “they don’t keep all the canons.” Since when do Protestants believe in keeping all the canons of the councils? He constantly had a True Orthodox priest on and together they attacked Mainstream Eastern Orthodoxy, but he never attacked True Orthodoxy. And if I remember correctly the True Orthodox priest was cool with the 66 books canon. So all Cleave’s defence of the 66 book canon cannot prove he was ever actually Protestant.
@Gary, The song is called “Cleave To The Closet” and its pretty good too. “You switched the script, now you’re ‘Orthodox’, Kissing all them icons, smoking all that incense….you traded in the juice and bread for that funky foot juice….with all your holy fathers thinking that your turd don’t stink…a performance for the cameras just a different set…your whole faith is just a performative script, yeah they gonna see you hommie…”