There are a lot of stories of pastors being ousted or persecuted by denominations for having views that were commonplace in the church prior to 1950. There are no shortages of pastors, and occasionally laymen, under persecution by a denomination. Over the last few years, I’ve gotten acquainted with several illustrations of this.
David Whitney refused to lockdown his church in 2020, as a pastor in the Evangelical Free Church of America. This made other pastors feel bad, so they initiated a fishing expedition against him, which culminated in defrocking him. Whitney would be forced out of the EFCA, as his church enjoys Baptist polity.
Jeff Kliewer opposed Critical Race Theory in the EFCA. Kliewer was disciplined by the EFCA, effectively being defrocked.
Michael Spangler was divested from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church was determined to be unfit for ministry due to a sermon that confronted feminism.
Zachary Garris is being strung up on charges for defending what the Bible says about slavery and by extension, Southern Presbyterians.
Most recently, Calvin Robinson has had his ministry license revoked by the Anglican Catholic Church. Robinson’s crime was making a joke about Elon Musk’s fabled Roman salute.
All of these men are examples of institutions revoking or undermining credentials for liberal causes. In other words, these denominations were so feminized and liberalized that ordinary Christian thought is now an anathematizable offense. Even the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches is being driven leftward by Doug Wilson who wants to formalize his woke proclivities at a denominational level.
The Southern Baptist Convention endorsed Critical Race Theory as an analytical tool in 2019 and has not revoked this endorsement. Additionally, they endorsed amnesty in 2023 and it continues to be a lobbying priority for their Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. And the SBC does go after people like Paige Patterson who they canceled for not believing all women hard enough. He was eventually vindicated in a lawsuit.
With the liberalization of institutions, American Protestantism is headed to a post-denominational future. Clear Truth Media was founded in 2024 to capitalize on this trend and supplant The Gospel Coalition. Efforts to recapture the Southern Baptist Convention have thus far failed and there is no expectation of success in 2025. The SBC is on its way to financial insolvency because of lawsuits. In the PCA, the liberals are not the majority but they have enough control to protect homosexual pastors and go after Garris.
Consequentially, many churches will leave liberal-run institutions like the Southern Baptist Convention, and the pastors undergoing discipline by denominations will simply leave the denomination with their congregations if they must. So denominations have lost institutional power in most cases.
However, in a post-denominational landscape, pastors will not be strung up on charges for opposing feminism, gayness, or keeping their churches open during lockdowns. Their congregation may oust them, which does happen. But that’s the extent.
The actions by several denominations to persecute faithful Christians while not reigning in liberals accelerate their decline and irrelevance. Meanwhile the post-denominational landscape in generally where the most influential based pastors exist. Joel Webbon is not in a denomination. Michael Foster left the CREC. The Ogden bros are paving the way for a broader catholicity. Jon Harris is not in a denomination. Even Mark Driscoll, perhaps the most viral pastor on the internet, is not in a denomination. Without such yoke there is far more freedom to preach the whole counsel of Scripture.
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Denominations used to represent a brand. When you considered attending one of the franchise members you knew what would be on the menu. This can only be said of a very few of them these days. The Baptists did some marketing studies and found that the Baptist brand was actually a barrier to attendance in many regions, and they began to hide their affiliation. This economic factor makes it easy to walk away from denominations.
But there are also theological trends. People are beginning to question the clergy idea, as being unbiblical and merely judaizing. Denominationalism is under pressure from many directions.
That Refuge church sounded good in their confession until they got to their elders holding the Westminster “God predestined all rapes” confession. Anyone holding that confession is trash. There can be no “greater catholicity” with people who hold that God predestined child rapes. Its not enough to say “you don’t have to believe God predestined child rapes but you have to sit there and listen to us preach that.” No, the doctrine of Satan must be banished from the church. Individual election is FALSE and leads to Judaizing; supersessionism REQUIRES that election is corporate. As the Jews were the elect group in the OT, the Gentikes are the elect group in the NT. Period. Any church not teaching this is Judaizing. The Jews love it when you say God predestined child rapes since its similar to their doctrine in the Talmud that rabbis get to rape youn boys till the day after their 9th birthday.
“The SBC is on its way to financial insolvency because of lawsuits.”
Excellent. I hope the SBC goes bankrupt. That way, they won’t have any money to promote race-mixing, jew worship, zionism, “judeo-christianity”, open borders, miscegenation, and other cultural marxist trash.
Ray, how did you attract these idiots? They spew racist and other stupidity as comments on all your posts. You seriously should block the trolls known as “dave s” and “A Christian”. They are sucking legitimacy from your site.
With regard to your question about whether denominations or non-denominational independent churches are more conducive to rightwing theology, I would say that there are pros and cons to each.
A denomination, especially a heavily centralized, top-down, centrally controlled denomination such as the Catholic Church or the Episcopal Church is easier for the (((enemy))) to infiltrate, gain control of, and corrupt and subvert.
Because these denominations are centrally controlled and run in a top-down fashion, if the (((enemy))) gains control of the top, (((they))) control everything and can easily corrupt and subvert the entire denomination.
That is what happened to the Catholic Church in the 1950s, when the pope John XXIII was (((installed))) by the jews and (((their))) agents within the Catholic Church. John XXIII and his successor Paul VI wanted to trash the traditional centuries-old Catholic teachings and replace it with jew worship, holocaust groveling, and cultural marxism.
And since the Catholic Church is essentially an absolute monarchy where the pope rules by divine right, everyone basically had to go along with what the pope wanted. And since the jews controlled the pope, (((they))) were able to easily subvert the Catholic Church and turn the Catholic Church into a vehicle for advancing (((their))) interests.
So that is the danger of a heavily centralized denomination: if the (((enemy))) is able to co-opt the denomination’s leadership, the entire denomination’s theology can be easily corrupted.
A large number of independent non-denominational churches are harder to infiltrate and subvert, because instead of simply co-opting the centralized leadership of a single denomination, the (((enemy))) has to infiltrate and co-opt the leadership of thousands of independent churches, which is a much harder task.
At least in theory.
Unfortunately, the leaders of many of these independent churches tend to be ambitious, opportunistic grifters who very eager to betray Christ and the flock, in exchange for (((earthly rewards))).
The main problem with the independent church model is that there is little to no oversight or supervision on the pastor, so he can do whatever he wants. The pastor of an independent church can spew all sorts of false teachings, and there is nobody to hold him accountable.
In most independent churches, the elders are lackeys of the pastor and share the pastor’s theological views. So if the pastor goes completely off the rails and preaches a bunch of lies and twisted theology, there is nobody to stop him.
This lack of accountability and supervision in independent churches has led to a competition among ambitious grifting pastors to see who can curry favor with the jews the most.
That is why you see megachurch pastors competing with each other to be the most pro-jewish.
In a denomination, pastors are expected to adhere to the theology of the denomination and can’t simply spew whatever theological trash they think will earn them a (((lucrative book deal))) or a (((big donation))) to their “ministry.”
Additionally, in a denomination, pastors are accountable to the denomination structure/hierarchy, and can be disciplined or removed if they go off the rails and start preaching heresies.
In an independent church, there is no such accountability.
Furthermore, an independent church stands or falls on its own: there is no larger denomination to provide assistance or support to an independent church.
This often results in independent churches being run like a for-profit corporate business, where maximizing revenue is the main objective.
The main way to maximize revenue is to grow the church congregation as large as possible, so independent churches often hire charismatic, slick, ambitious grifters as pastors. These opportunistic grifters say and do whatever will attract the most attendees, attention, and above all, revenue.
Thus, the church’s theology is designed to conform with whatever will bring in the most money. Even if that money comes from (((non-believers))).
In a denomination, there isn’t as much pressure for each individual church to raise large sums of money, because the church is part of a larger denominational network that provides financial support.
Furthermore, in denominations, a pastor’s career advancement derives from the denomination itself (and the denomination’s hierarchy), rather than from the pastor’s own personal charisma and ability to attract a crowd.
That is why mainline denominations tend to frown upon celebrity-style, charismatic, entertainer pastors who create a cult of personality around themselves.
The mainline denominations are concerned with the interests of the denomination as a whole, rather than the interests of individual pastors. Thus, denominations tend to discourage the sort of attention-seeking behavior and personality cults that are common within many independent churches (especially megachurches).
It’s difficult to imagine an Anglican or Catholic or Presbyterian pastor acting like Steve Furtick or Mark Driscoll or Robert Morris.
That’s because in a denomination, the hierarchy (bishops etc) would tell the attention-seeking pastor to stop acting like a circus clown.
Because denominations are concerned with the interests of the denomination as a whole, they have low tolerance for ambitious publicity-seeking celebrity pastors who go off the reservation.
If a pastor in the Anglican Church, or the Presbyterian Church, or the Catholic Church, or the Greek Orthodox Church, goes off the rails and starts heretically ranting about how “god” demands that everyone support “israel”, the denomination hierarchy would force that pastor to sit down and shut up.
At least, that is the way things used to be, before the denominations themselves were (((infiltrated))) and (((corrupted))).
In an independent church, there is nobody to put a lasso around an out-of-control pastor, because the elders are usually the pastor’s lackeys, the congregation are often gullible mindless sheep, and the highest priority is raking in as much revenue as possible so the megachurch can build a 5,000 seat auditorium or a new swimming pool or whatever. Thus, it benefits everyone to let the out-of-control grifting celebrity pastor keep ranting and raving and spewing pro-jewish heretical lies, because that brings in the (((big donations))).
That lack of oversight and supervision, and the lack of any mechanism to keep ambitious pastors from opportunistically preaching heresies in the hope of obtaining (((fame and wealth))), is the main drawback of the independent church model.
But on the other hand, a model that is heavily centralized and centrally controlled is dangerous because if the (((enemy))) is able to co-opt the denomination’s leadership, (((they))) can easily corrupt the entire denomination’s theology, which is what happened to the Catholic Church with Vatican 2.
I feel that on the balance, the independent church model is better than the heavily centralized, centrally controlled, top-down model of the Catholic Church.
This is because the independent church model is harder for the jews to gain total control of, because each church is its own separate entity.
Ideally, the preferable model would be somewhere in the middle. The model that the Southern Baptist Convention had 60 or 70 or 80 years ago is not too bad. The churches were independent, but there was also a degree of oversight and supervision. Similarly, the model that the Presbyterian Church has is not too bad, as I understand it.
In my view, a good church model would NOT claim that salvation is contingent on membership of the church. This is because if the church leadership is ever (((co-opted))), there needs to be an “escape route” for the members to secede to avoid having to follow heretical antichrist theology.
A church model which claims that membership in the denomination is required to obtain salvation is extremely dangerous, because even if the denomination is (((co-opted))) by the (((enemy))) and starts preaching heretical antichrist theology, the members will be too scared to secede, because they will be afraid of losing their salvation, since they have been taught that being a member of the denomination is necessary to obtain salvation.
In order to provide a “backup plan” and “escape route” to allow members to secede from a denomination that has become (((corrupted))), it is absolutely essential and vital that the denomination’s theology makes it totally clear that salvation comes only from believing in Jesus Christ, and NOT from being a member of the denomination. This will free members to secede if the denomination ever becomes (((corrupted))).
The church model (denominational vs independent) is less important than the theology being preached. If the theology is heretical and false, then even a carefully designed church organizational structure won’t prevent the church from being corrupted and debased.
Ultimately, there will never be a perfect church model in this world, because we live in a fallen world. Any earthly church model will have advantages and disadvantages.
The only perfect church model is the one that Jesus Christ will establish when He returns.
In the meantime, the best thing we can do is put our faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not rely on fallible earthly religious institutions nor fallible earthly religious leaders.
One of the easiest ways to determine if a pastor is a false teacher, is to find out the pastor’s view regarding the jews. If the pastor falsely claims that the jews are “the chosen people” or “anti-semites are at enmity with god” or “god is on the side of the jews” or “god will punish anti-semites”, any pastor who preaches those TOTAL LIES is a FALSE TEACHER.
“Ray, how did you attract these idiots? They spew racist and other stupidity as comments on all your posts. You seriously should block the trolls known as “dave s” and “A Christian”. They are sucking legitimacy from your site.”
Oh look, it’s (((Jere))) the concern troll, who claims to be oh-so-concerned about the legitimacy of the website.
The other day, (((Jere))) was spewing the heretical lie that anyone who opposes the evil jews is “at enmity with God” and needs to seek forgiveness.
Why would anyone need to seek forgiveness for OPPOSING evil?
God WANTS us to OPPOSE evil, and the jews are undeniably the most evil group on earth.
Let’s break down (((Jere’s))) latest post.
(((Jere))) claims that Dave and I are “idiots.”
Oh really, (((Jere)))? Can you point out a single thing that Dave or I have said that is false?
No, of course you can’t.
(((Jere))) also complains about “racist” comments.
The concept of “racist” being bad was invented by the jews, in order to gaslight and manipulate White people into believing that White racial unity is bad.
The evil jews intentionally brainwash White people into believing that White unity is bad, because if Whites don’t have any unity or any sense of racial solidarity, that makes it much easier for the jews to divide and conquer.
Furthermore, if Whites are divides and distracted and programmed to only care about themselves, that prevents White people from uniting to stop the jews from corrupting, harming, and destroying society.
The entire concept of “racism” as a bad thing, is an anti-White gaslighting strategy.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with favoring your own racial kin above outsiders.
In fact, loving your own people is the Christian thing to do, just as any good Christian loves their own family more than they love random people who live across town.
Your race is your extended family. Loving your race is your Christian duty.
“Racist” simply means loving and caring about your own people and wanting your own people to survive and be safe.
Thus, “racism” is an absolute moral good, because “racism” simply means wanting your own people to survive, exist, and flourish.
Anyone who accuses White people of being “racist” is either an (((enemy))) or a traitor.
Which one of those two options are you, Jere?
(((Jere))) ends his manipulative post by demanding that Dave and I be blocked.
(((Jere))) knows that he can’t win an honest debate, because the facts are against him.
Thus, (((Jere))) seeks to censor those who tell the truth.
Finally, (((Jere))) pretends to be oh-so-concerned about the reputation and legitimacy of the website, when the truth is that (((he))) couldn’t care less about the website, and (((his))) real goal is to gaslight Christians into believing the pro-jewish “judeo-christian” heresy.
(((Jere))) revealed his true colors a few days ago, when (((he))) had the nerve to spew the blatant heretical LIE that anyone who opposes the jews is “at enmity with god.”
I wrote a long and detailed reply to (((Jere))), refuting and debunking (((his))) manipulative pro-jewish lies.
And of course, to no one’s surprise, (((Jere))) didn’t respond to my refutation of (((his))) lies.
(((Jere))) makes drive-by low effort comments, and then runs away when (((his))) evil lies are refuted.
I stand by my posts: they simply express the true Christian beliefs that virtually ALL Christians believed before the 1970s, when (((cultural marxism))) began to metastasize within institutional Christianity.
Anyone reading this can decide for themselves: do you trust the beliefs and theology that virtually ALL devout Christians adhered to for almost 2000 years?
Or do you trust (((Lying Jere))) and John Hagee and the pro-jewish pedophiles Robert Morris and Mike Pickle?
Anyone reading this can be the judge.
Jere, you don’t even have to worry about banning me, since I was resolved to not comment for a few months before I even made my first comment on this post. But after reading that confession of faith I wasn’t able to keep that resolve. The reason the churches are so messed up is because of Calvinism; its divisive, its stupid, its evil. The reason homosexuality and fornication have taken hold is people either one, believe they are once saved always saved by predestination, or two, give up because of despair about whether they are elect or not. Not to mention that the doctrine of total depravity gave the gays the “born that way, can’t do any better excuse” which they secularized into being born gay and ran with, and its what gave them the legal victory in the courts, because the judges felt it would be mean to ban what people were born as; so Calvinism won and overthrew all the moral foundations of society. Beating back Calvinism is how we will Make America Christian Again. And its no wonder Reformed churches are constantly riddled with sex scandals, as with Steve Lawson, because the pastors and elders believe their sins were all predestined and so they must commit whatever sin pops into their heads, and they deny that “God will not tempt you above what you are able but will with the temptation provide a way of escape” can actually be true, because that would imply freewill, and so they teach, and I just watched a stream of Calvinist Chris Date saying this explicitly, that there isn’t a literal way of escape and each sin must occur because its predestined; so they teach that Lawson had no choice but to commit adultery, and he believed that, which is why he did it. Calvinism is the problem; it also is why so many are atheists, as it makes God look so evil or so ludicrous they just lose their faith. If we can beat back Calvinism, then Christianity has a chance; otherwise, we won’t have a Christian Nation but a garbage nation made up of Calvinism, Atheism, and Judaism, and garbage Mary Worship Calvinism known as Roman Catholicism (because those idiots also via Augustine teach that its all fatalism, if you listen to their educated clergy) as it is currently.